In a New York Times interview about the 2024 election, Rep. Nancy Pelosi, Democrat of California, said Democrats lost in part because of cultural issues. Journalist Lulu Garcia-Navarro, co-host of “The Interview,” noted that most voters said they voted on inflation, the economy and immigration.

“These are not cultural issues,” says Garcia-Navarro said. “These are policy questions.”

Pelosi retorted: “When the presidential candidate says these people coming are murderers, rapists, thieves and everything else. He’s made it a cultural issue.”

Garcia-Navarro said millions of people have crossed the U.S. border under President Joe Biden’s administration. Pelosi said: “I don’t think we’ve been clear enough in saying that fewer people have arrived under President Biden than under Donald Trump.”

Illegal immigration under Biden has fell significantly over the past four months, reaching lower levels than the final months of President-elect Donald Trump’s term. But it is false to say that illegal immigration, which reached historic highs under Biden, is lower overall than it was during Trump’s first term.

Pelosi’s office did not respond to PolitiFact’s request for comment, but the illegal immigration data contradicts Pelosi’s assertion. A Pelosi aide said The Washington Post to which Pelosi was referring eviction data. This data shows that the Biden administration has repatriated more people than Trump, but that’s not what Pelosi said in the interview.

What the data shows on illegal migration

From February 2021, Biden’s first full month in office, to September 2024, the last month with dataU.S. Border Patrol agents encountered migrants attempting to illegally cross U.S. borders between ports of entry 7.2 million times.

Under the Trump administration, from February 2017 to January 2021, the Border Patrol encounter immigrants between ports of entry 1.8 million times.

Encounter data does not represent the number of people allowed into the United States; there is no specific data for this. But according to the federal dataCustoms and Border Protection released about 313,000 people under the Trump administration and about 3.6 million people under the Biden administration, pending court hearings. (Biden data includes people who received humanitarian parolelegal authorization to live and work in the United States for up to two years.)

Based on available data, fewer people came to the United States under Biden than under Trump, as Pelosi claimed. But there are important caveats about which data to consider.

The pandemic has changed data tracking: Prior to March 2020, border data recorded times when people were apprehended crossing the border illegally under immigration law. During the pandemic, both the Trump and Biden administrations have apprehended people under this law. But authorities also began tracking evictions as part of a public health policy, Title 42. Those deported under this policy have not been allowed to enter the country; while people apprehended under immigration law in some cases could still be allowed entry.

Beginning in FY 2020, U.S. Customs and Border Protection began reporting encounters, a combination of arrests and expulsions under Title 42. (Title 42 enforcement took ends in May 2023.)

Thus, the change in tracking immigration data makes it difficult to fairly compare entries between different administrations.

Meetings represent events and not people: Not everyone encountered is allowed to enter the country. Immigration data represents events, not people. If a person attempts to enter the country three times and is stopped each time by border agents, for example, that amounts to three encounters, even if it is the same person encountered. People expelled under Title 42 were not penalized for repeated entry attempts, which is why many tried to come multiple times.

In recent months, meetings have decreased drastically: In June, Biden issued a policy limiting the ability of people to seek asylum at the southwest border. Since then, border patrols on the U.S.-Mexico border have declined sharply, from more than 117,000 in May to fewer than 54,000 in September.

From July to September, the monthly number of Border Patrol encounters was lower than during the last four months of Trump’s term.

Despite caveats in the data and declines in encounters in recent months, Pelosi’s claim that fewer people entered the United States under Biden than under Trump is inaccurate.

What eviction data shows

As with dating data, comparing pre-pandemic eviction data to eviction data during the public health emergency is challenging. There are multiple ways to repatriate people: send them back to their country of origin or to another country that will accept them.

• Removals: This is when people are removed from the United States through a formal court order, often sanctioned for illegal entry. This can include people who have lived in the United States for years and people who have recently arrived. U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement is usually involved.

• Returns: This happens at the border when people are returned to their country of origin without legal sanctions and without undergoing formal removal proceedings.

• Title 42 expulsions: These took place from March 2020 to May 2023 under the public health policy. Many people arriving at the border were not allowed to enter the United States and were expelled without legal sanctions.

Combining data from all these types of repatriations, Biden sent more people than Trump (4.3 million versus 2.2 million.)

But looking only at Immigration and Customs Enforcement data, Trump has deported more people than Biden (about 294,000 versus about 114,000).

We asked immigration experts whether the increased number of encounters under Biden explained the higher number of total repatriations under his administration. They said this only in part, because despite the increase in illegal immigration cases, the resources available for deportations have remained largely the same.

“The government has limited capacity to identify, detain and deport individuals, so it’s not as if deportation capacity can be dramatically increased or reduced based on how encounters evolve,” Michelle Mittelstadt, of the group non-partisan think tank Migration Policy Institute. director, told PolitiFact in September.

The increase in encounters influenced the decrease in Immigration and Customs Enforcement referrals. Biden concentrate on repatriating people to the U.S. border, rather than deporting people who have lived in the United States for decades. Biden also had more total repatriations because he executed rapid expulsions for public health reasons that did not require court orders for much longer than Trump.

Additionally, under Biden, many more immigrants came from countries other than Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras than under Trump. It is more difficult to deport migrants from these other countries for “legal and logistical reasons,” according to the Migration Policy Institute. report said.

Our decision

Pelosi said: “Fewer people arrived under President Biden than under Donald Trump.”

Under Biden, Border Patrol agents encountered migrants attempting to enter the United States 7.2 million times; Under Trump, authorities encountered migrants 1.8 million times. The encounters do not mean people were allowed entry, and there is no data on how many of the people encountered now live in the United States. But the number of people released pending court hearings also doesn’t support Pelosi’s statement. There were about 313,000 under Trump, compared to 3.6 million under Biden.

Pelosi’s team did not respond to PolitiFact’s request for comment. But he told the Washington Post that Pelosi was talking about eviction data.

Overall, Biden has carried out more total repatriations – sending people out of the United States – than Trump. But that doesn’t prove that fewer people were allowed into the United States than under Trump.

We believe Pelosi’s statement is false.