You might not recognize Dean Withers without Charlie Kirk sitting across from him. Or Nick Fuentes. Or 20 Trump supporters. Or one of many conservative opponents, the now 20-year-old philosophy student, went viral in debates in the months leading up to the 2024 election. But now that the election is decided and the Exit polls show that many of his fellow Gen Z males have migrated to Trump, Withers stands out not only from his opponents but also from many of his peers.

On the phone days after the election, Withers is the same quick-witted, deeply informed person viewers saw in his Jubilee YouTube video on Sept. 8, when he was one of 25 liberal students debating with far-right political commentator Charlie Kirk. On September 20, he was brought back as main characterfacing off against 20 Trump supporters in another speed debate that racked up 13 million views.

Tourniquet Follow TikTok grew to more than 2 million in the final weeks of the election, but he had been debating conservatives live and on Twitter for some time. “The main reason I have these conversations is not to convince the person I’m talking to,” he says. GQ. “It’s about convincing people who are listening and who share the same beliefs as my interlocutor.”

Withers grew up in rural Colorado, surrounded by conservative family members, and initially shared their beliefs. apologies for the tweets he posted at that time that contained insults. But he says it was conversations with people on the left, including his friends, and further research into political issues that led him to the conclusion that “generally, the left is right.”

Withers has his work cut out for him. Here he shares his findings on the election results and what he thinks he can do against his generation of right-leaning men.

GQ: One of the big takeaways from the election was how Gen Z men have become more conservative. Does this seem correct to you? And if so, why do you think this might be the case?

Tourniquet: It’s true that younger men of my generation lean more to the right. On the one hand, I would argue that the right has long been winning the war over online culture and non-traditional media. But we are just now seeing that this effort is more prevalent than ever. One of the reasons we might attribute it is that (mainstream media) highlights points that society seems to have overlooked on a large scale. And many of these issues that are highlighted, because they need to be addressed and resolved, are generally not relevant to young men, particularly young white men. When we talk about issues like systemic racism or BLM or the LGBTQ+ community or women’s rights. This can lead to young men feeling like they’re not focusing on themselves, and sometimes it will lead these young men into spaces where they are focused. And who is focusing on young white people right now? The law.

When you make these appearances, do you aim to find common ground? Has there ever been a time when you or the other person sees the other’s side?

Well, I mean, yes, of course, there have been instances where I’ve had conversations with people who disagreed with me and ended up changing their beliefs in favor of mine . But the predominant reason I have these conversations is not to convince the person I’m talking to, it’s to convince the people who are listening and who share the same beliefs as the person I’m talking to. It’s a lot harder to admit what you believe when I’m preaching my beliefs in front of 20,000 people on a livestream. It’s much easier to scroll through TikTok on your phone, on your lunch break, listen to one or two of my conversations each day, and then, over time, create a more fundamental shift to the left, as you begin to realize that when you search, left is usually right.

By presenting yourself as an alternative role model, do you hope you can help create an online space for men on the left?

Yeah. This has always been one of my priorities. But now more than ever, certainly. I would absolutely say that, given the fallout from this election, one of my biggest concerns is: How do we win the culture war? What attitudes should we adopt to attract more young men of my generation, so that they listen to me?

What issues do you think young men are looking for answers to and aren’t seeing on the left?

Why progressivism focuses more on women, minority communities, and LGBTQ+ communities rather than themselves. And usually the response they get from other people on the right is because (progressives are) lame and creaky and weird. And more often than not, when these young men turn to the left, they are told that, well, you’re just misogynistic and sexist. Embrace these ideals, or be isolated. And that’s a very difficult question to answer. Many younger men who belong to these (right-wing) communities are misogynistic, homophobic and racist. So how do we open up a space for dialogue to hopefully convince more of these young men that maybe they’re wrong?

How do you stay resilient in these conversations when it seems like you and the other person don’t even speak the same language?

Because, in these one-on-one conversations, I no longer have to convince the person I’m currently debating that they are wrong, but rather promote social attitudes that I find beneficial to our country and humanity as a whole . And any role I can play in what I see as an inevitable progression toward what I believe to be more virtuous is my positive impact on the immediate world around me. And while these conversations can be difficult, mentally draining, I inevitably see a greater purpose.

It sounds like you’re ultimately optimistic that over time progressivism will grow.

Yeah. I do. And on the one hand, it assumes that as society progresses, as we acquire more effective tools for disseminating information, as we uphold intellectualism to a higher degree, as we become more intelligent as a people we will see more of I move to the left because I find the virtues and beliefs of the left to be more grounded in reason and logic than those of the right. But maybe that’s an assumption worth criticizing, maybe it won’t. But I ultimately believe that over the course of humanity, while there are a plethora of issues that deserve their own attention and deserve recognition for the harm they cause, one thing I could to say is that apparently, over the course of humanity, things have improved. And this on a very large scale and in the long term. This is why I maintain the hypothesis that the more humanity progresses, the smarter, more rational, and more willing to embrace left-wing views we will be.