From stoned bunny to Scottish octopus, vampire to goose-voiced, cop to zombie stepfather, Bill Nighy’s storied career has seen him play a diverse mix of roles. His performance as a cancer-stricken urban planner in Living (2022) – a melancholic remake of Akira Kurosawa’s 1952 classic Ikiru – earned him an Academy Award nomination for Best Actor.

His latest role sees him take on another refined older man under pressure, pioneering obstetrician Patrick Steptoe. In Ben Taylor’s drama Joy, Nighy’s Steptoe has worked tirelessly since the late 1960s for over a decade with nurse and embryologist Jean Purdy (Thomasin McKenzie) and scientist Robert Edwards (James Norton) to create the first test tube baby using in vitro fertilization (IVF). This makes for a sad but ultimately uplifting drama. In real life, some 12 million people were born in 2023 thanks to the methods developed by the trio.

Speaking the day after the world premiere of Joy at the BFI At the London Film Festival in October, Nighy is in enthusiastic and expansive form as he sits down to discuss his role, where he stands in researching his characters, and how perspectives on gender have changed for the better.

What did you think of this role when you first heard about it?

Bill Nighy: The role came via producer Amanda Posey. He is someone I admire a lot and trust. I knew it was a serious thing because she was involved.

Much of the appeal was that Jean Purdy, the scientist played by the exemplary Thomasin McKenzie, had been completely written out of history because she was a woman. I’m always hungry for these kinds of opportunities. I made another film with Amanda called Their Finest (2016), in which Gemma Arterton played one of the very first female screenwriters in the 1940s, when male screenwriters referred to everything a woman said in a movie – and here’s a quote: That’s exactly the term they used: “the slope.” This is what women who spoke were called. Either way, it was another opportunity to set a bomb against the male tendency to surprisingly underestimate women because of their gender.

Are you glad things have changed since then, then?

Yeah. I think we still have a lot of work to do, including on ourselves. I heard someone use the phrase “adjust your programming.” Over the course of my life, in almost 75 years, you’ve had to really adjust your programming, because I was raised in a pretty average household – normal for the time – with attitudes that were of the time, including ideas about sex and gender. , and I had to violently reprogram.

Were you familiar with Patrick Steptoe’s work before getting the role?

No, but I remember Louise Brown (the first person born after conception via IVF) having been born 47 years ago, and I remember there being some controversy. I didn’t realize until I read the script how fierce the opposition was from the newspapers, from the church, from their families, from the medical association, from everyone. It took some determination to persevere for 10 years, an entire decade of failures, attacks and thanks, until Louise Brown was born. Then everyone fell silent.

In the film, this religious opposition is represented by Gladys, Jean’s mother, played by Joanna Scanlan. Times have changed, but to what extent do you sympathize with his position?

They have all been manipulated by the media. The way it was presented to people was they said it was ungodly. They were called Doctor Frankenstein. (It was said that) children would be born with abnormalities – if they weren’t actually deformed, there would be mutations that would be dangerous to the human race as a whole. This is how it was presented to sell newspapers, so that they could be forgiven for being alarmed. As for religious perspectives, I don’t know, I’m not religious. But I don’t think there’s anything in the Bible that says, “Thou shalt not fertilize an embryo outside the body.” »

Did you do a lot of research into Patrick’s life to try to understand him?

No, I’ve reached an age where I’m allowed to answer that question honestly, which is to say, if you ask me how much research I’ve done, I won’t tell you absolutely any. It’s like when people say, “How did you get into the character?” I was trying to answer this question just to be sociable, but actually, I’m old enough now that I can say, “You know what? I have never knowingly been in character in my life. I’ve heard great things about it, but that’s not my experience. I understand the character, but I don’t understand the passage. I don’t know where people are going – where are they going? It’s work, you go to work, you have to be self-aware and you have to be able to observe yourself. You don’t want to enter anywhere.

Also, Jack Thorne and his wife Rachel, who wrote the screenplay, my goodness. He said last night that this was the biggest research program he’s ever been involved in because he and his wife have a IVF son, and the director also has two IVF children, and Amanda Posey has a IVF child. So there was this element which, obviously, influenced the general atmosphere. He had done a lot of research, and everything I needed to know to play this role was in the script.

What similarities do you see between you and Patrick?

I would love to think that (I have some similarities) – because he had courage, Patrick Steptoe. There were three surgeons in this hospital, and when abortion was legalized, two of them refused to perform them and Patrick Steptoe performed them all. This is a very remarkable decision to make. I would love to think I would have the courage to be like him.

Every time it’s this time, I think of my father. My father was very honest, like most people’s fathers, a very direct, right-thinking guy who tried to behave accordingly. It’s not specific to the 1960s or 1950s. But there is an atmosphere, this period. Apparently everyone has nostalgia for a period 70 years before their birth.

Apparently, 16th century monks wrote in 1640: “It was great in 1600. It was wonderful in 1599. Look, the whole place is in pieces.” Do you remember when it was good? Politicians manipulate people by saying, “We’re going to make America great again,” or in England, “We’re going to make England great again.” Tell it to the women. Ask women what they think about this. Ask any ethnicity what they think about that. Ask gay people what they think about this.

Civilization has just begun. Women gained the right to vote in the 1920s, homosexuality was legal in 1967. We got really serious when George Floyd was brutally tortured and murdered. Race has become a real topic… I mean, it’s always been a topic, obviously, a priority, but it’s become a very hot topic. It’s only just beginning.

The film makes it clear that Patrick’s combined work, alongside Robert Edwards and Jean Purdy, really made IVF the success it has become. What do you think about the fact that Jean’s contribution was ignored until 2015, when it was Patrick’s son, Andrew, who unveiled the plaque naming them all?

Like I said before, that’s one of the things that attracted me to this, because I think we really need to pull the plug on this before anyone can start having a good time. There are all these systems in place that seem to be subconsciously set up to make sure that no one actually has a good time, and sexism is one of them.

They say that at one point, India was operating at about 25% of its potential because of its attitude towards women. It wasn’t that long ago, maybe 100 years, maybe a little more, when men, professionals, educated men, so-called educated men, told you that there was no point in educate a woman because her brain wasn’t strong enough to retain all that information. . This was a widely held opinion, and it didn’t exist very long ago. It’s probably my grandparents’ time. We are just getting started.

You said recently that having children is like science fiction. To what extent do you subscribe to this expression that we sometimes hear: “Every child is a miracle”?

I think it’s an extraordinary thing. Two people do this thing and then create a human being. I mean, come on. It’s like science fiction. I attended the birth of my daughter and nothing prepares you for it. Everyone is an expert before the event. They always talk to you about this, that and the other. You’ll never sleep until you’re 20, blah, blah, blah.

It’s like everyone is an expert when it comes to training a dog. Everyone suddenly becomes incredibly informative about training a dog. But nothing prepares you for the moment when they hand you this real, living thing. It’s like a crash course in perspective. Suddenly you think, “Oh, I see, it’s not about me, it’s about this.” Those days are over. Yeah, a miracle will do the trick. The human brain, body, organs and tissues are miraculous.

Joy had its world premiere at the 68th BFI London Film Festival. It is in selected cinemas and on Netflix from November 15.